Key Takeaways:

• Most adult, female friendships aren’t used to the capacity for good that they could be.
• Erin saw a gap in education on what really good, healthy friendships could be like and that’s how her second book came about.
• We aren’t teaching young girls what healthy boundaries look like in friendships, and that can save them so much pain as their relationships grow.
• When you are most exhausted, that’s when you need to reach out to others and cultivate those relationships.

INSIDE THE EPISODE:

Dr. Whitney: Hi Everybody. Welcome back to the Modern Mommy Doc Podcast. Today we're gonna chat about friends and this is a topic that I think is gonna be really, really interesting and important because I think as modern moms, friendships get on the back burner once we have kids. And so today we are chatting with Erin Falconer who wrote the book, How to Break Up With Your Friends: Finding Meaning, Connection, and Boundaries in Modern Friendships. Welcome, Erin, to the show.

Erin: Thank you so much for having me.

Dr. Whitney: So Erin, talk first about the backstory. You know, I was a journalism major in college. I'm always interested in what brought people to write the book they wrote, what got them really interested in their topic. So tell me what brought this to life.

Erin: So I had a very non-linear path to this book. I actually wrote my first book called How to Get Sh*t Done: Why Women Need to Stop Doing Everything So They Can Achieve Anything. And that book really took a look at redefining what true productivity means for women. Because prior to this, we didn't look at productivity in any kind of nuanced way. It was like input plus hours spent equals output. And so I was seeing a lot of women working, working, working, spinning their wheels, very frustrated, very burnt out and never stopping to really take stock of who they are, where they are, how they got here and where they wanna go. And so after that book and the success of that book, I was kind of looking at what a 2.0 version of that book would be.

And I spent an endless amount of time going in different directions, down different rabbit holes, and nothing was really resonating with me. And I was actually starting to get super frustrated and nervous like, "Oh my God, what am I gonna write here?" And I woke up one day at around six in the morning, which is way early for me. And so I was kinda half asleep, half awake. And this statement just came to my mind: how to break up with your friends. And I was like, what? Tried to go back to sleep. And then for the next two days, that statement kept popping into my head to the point of great irritation. Two or three days later, I was like, what is this about? I'm trying to work diligently on a productivity book and as I kind of digested or metabolized this statement, I started to look at my own friendships.

I kind of had no choice because this idea just kept popping into my head. And as I was looking at them, kind of workshopping them, I realized something: we have this incredible untapped resource in these friendships. We are just dialing in expecting to give, give, give, kind of afraid of what to ask for what we really want and need. Even though outwardly we see, "She's my BFF, she's everything!" So in words, very appreciative of friendship, but in action and in doing the work, and I talk a lot about that in the first book, really not a lot happening. And, for me, if something's not bringing you energy, it's taking it. There is no kind of net neutral. And so I started to really critically analyze. What if we did be really intentional about it, act really intentionally about the people in our life, in a friendship capacity.

And it really does go hand in hand with productivity. So this book is kind of a look into the importance of friendship–not just from a fun perspective, but physiologically, biologically, emotionally. These relationships have the power to really do good in your life, but you have to work at them. As a therapist, It's never dawned on me that we have individual therapy, couples therapy, family therapy, nothing on friendship. And yet so many of my clients come in talking about upset and angst, you know, having a conflict with friends.

It's so unbelievable. We really do not have a language to navigate friendship and conflict. There's no blueprint. There's no kind of general expectation of what a really good friendship should mean for you. So that's how the book came about. And so even though the title is How to Break Up With Your Friends, there's only one chapter on actually literally how to break up with a friend. There are nine chapters on the importance of really rolling up your sleeves and doing the work because on the other side of that, these relationships have the power to really give.

Dr. Whitney: I love that you're creating a blueprint for this.I have a couple thoughts that came into my head. One is about what we were taught as kids about friendship. And I always think about this in my pediatrics practice when I'm talking with families and especially families of young girls. And I'm always thinking about how in my growing up years, how to be a good friend wasn't explicitly taught. If it was, it was always around like appearances. You need to be grateful. You need to be the kind of person that people would wanna be friends with.

Someone makes you kinda feel bad. You’re told they’re a good person, so forgive, right? Never around really boundary setting, about what works for you in a give and take kind of relationship, in the same way you would think about your partner or a work colleague, a teammate who's working with you on a common goal. And so I love that we're hopefully changing the narrative for our young girls, because I think that's gonna allow them to have healthier relationships with their partners and in their work and in their families overall, when we really start at that place of friendship. And then the other thing that comes to mind is, what an incredibly daunting task to take on. You are absolutely right that probably friendships are the place that I give the least in terms of like my energy toward trying to make them really healthy places. And my guess is that a lot of people are thinking as they listen to this:I don't even have time to do anything with my friends, much less dive into making them amazing. So can we start there with how do you even cultivate friendships? What are healthy friendships? What's the foundation?

Erin: Well, so here's, here's the thing. It does feel counterintuitive, right? Even for the first book, what I kind of talk about is counterintuitive. It's the idea that when you do less and you can get more done with meaning. So if I think about when I was at my absolute busiest, the first thing I would do when my schedule got tight was cross off the drinks with friends. Take off any friend obligation so I could get my work done. And that makes sense on its face. But when you really think about it, if you are meeting with these friends in a meaningful way (and that doesn't mean like a loud bar with 17 people, and you're scrolling your phone, because then you can cancel that off the list) and you would spend one hour with a friend or two having a meal device free, really talking and communicating, sharing, listening, being heard, listened to, being seen, what that could actually do for your energy level the next day--when you've still got that crazy busy schedule--is really unbelievable. And so while it feels like I don't have time to do this, my argument is you don't have time not to. So, like anything when you're starting out at the beginning, it's really daunting.

Erin: And the place you always start is with yourself. It's kind of what I said about in the first book, you have to do a self-audit. Where am I in my life? Who am I? What defines me as a person? Where do I wanna go? And how do I wanna project that out into the future? What relationships are best to help me do that? And then it's all completely reciprocal and where can I contribute and be of value to other people? And so until you start doing that work, you're just running blindly. And what happens is you kind of numb yourself to these relationships and you never wanna be going through life numb with anything. You wanna be active and alive and making choices because when you're making choices, you've got personal power.

And so a great place to start is making choices about who you're gonna spend time with. Of course, at different points of your life, you have different bandwidths. You're a new mom, don't have a lot of time, so you need to be kind of strategic about which people you’re gonna spend time with. Because as you know, new moms are out there swinging blindly and at their wits end, with fear and worry and exhaustion. You need to align yourself with people that are going through the same thing with you, or that have come out the other side and can provide support and a lamp post to where you wanna get to. I would say, as a new mom, this is the most crucial time to be reaching out to people. Being able to connect and feel seen and understood really helps mitigate a lot of postpartum depression. Same thing when you start a new career or a new job. Finding people that can really help you feel supported is so important. As exhausted as you might be in those times, that's when you need those relationships.

To answer your other question, I spend an entire chapter talking about first friendships and how they shape you and or can misshape you. And so it's important to be spending a lot of time looking back on how did I do friendship right from the beginning?

And the truth is for very young children, they're all relationships by proximity with very little choice. You're going here, go on the playground, make a friend, go do this. This is your class. Find somebody you like. And that's actually not very good in terms of socialization. You're not really finding out in the world, finding your people. It's like proximity, proximity, proximity. Of course, as you get into the teen years, you can start to navigate with a little more consciousness. I'm vibing with this person. These are my people. And then through trial and error and a lot of teen angst, you kind of start to realize who your friends are and realize a lot about yourself, through who you're choosing as your friends.

But there are also a lot of negative behaviors that you develop as a small child. Maybe you were bullied, maybe you were a bully. Maybe you felt very ostracized and therefore developed a lot of defenses. That again, if you were out there actively searching for the right people, as opposed to just being put in a group and being told to find somebody, it could be different. Which you're not always gonna find somebody in a class of 20 people. And so those things can really shade how you're going into your world as an adult. And yet the scenario's not the same, you can go out and actively find your people. There are people out there for you. So understanding how you saw yourself in the world, as a friend in grade one might give you a lot of information about insecurities or shortcomings or delusions that are living with you now that aren't necessarily true.

And also the way your parents socialize really can influence you. I had a mom that was like the hostess with the mostess. So I just naturally thought like, well, that's how you're supposed to be. Turns out, I'm a bit of an introvert. And for a long time I was trying to put up this facade: I'll throw dinner parties. I'll do this. And I didn't enjoy it. And realizing that that was modeled for me. And so where can I find the best place to live? That's true to me who I am.

Dr. Whitney: I think that particular point is so important. The more aware you're becoming of who you are and what your needs are and how you have a reciprocal relationship with someone where you're both truly meeting each other's needs, the better. This comes up in my family because my husband is an extreme extrovert and was trained to be the life of the party and loves it. And my parents did the same thing. They constantly had parties, but I'm a total introvert. So now when we're choosing mutual friends to go do something with, he'll say things like, "Well, there's nothing wrong with them. We could spend a weekend with them." And I'm like, “I'm happy to invest a dinner, but an entire 48 hours away from my children, with people that I can't get deep with and really be connected with, absolutely not. Not worth it for the investment that I'm making.”

So help me and help our listeners. I want to invest in friendships. I wanna put energy into these people who will be able to be supportive over time and I can be supportive to them. It'll be energy giving. Are there some litmus tests to run through or some specific things to look for in a friendship or measures people can use to ask, is this a good fit for me? Or is this relationship working for me in a friendship category?

Erin: A very good starting point is literally just write down the names of, you know, the top 15 or 20 people that are in your life and just watch your reaction when you see their name appear on that paper. A very good litmus test is when you see one of those names appear on your call display when they're calling you, do you go, "Oh God, I don't wanna talk to this person!" Or are you genuinely excited? But what's your visceral reaction to this person? Don't think about it. 

I did this with a list and was realizing a lot of negative feelings I was having about one of my closest friends. Somebody that's really valuable and has always supported me. And I could have just let it drift off and die but chose to have that awkward conversation and luckily we are stronger because of it.

Dr. Whitney: Well, I think what you're talking about though, is repair with your friendships. We're talking about deep repair with friendships and I think a lot of times when you're really busy with the rest of your life, to have a deeper moment with my husband feels valuable because we see each other day in and day out. We parent our kids together. If I want my relationship with my husband to be long standing, we have to have these really deep, very awkward conversations about like, I hated the way that that happened with our kids the other day, or I felt blah, blah, blah.

But with your friends. I feel like it's a lot easier to just decide, well I'm just not gonna go to the zoom happy hour. I'll just let that one kinda slide for now. Cause I have so much going on anyway. And I like how you described analyzing and what are the things that are making me not as invested in this relationship right now. And is there something I could do to bring it back to a place where I would wanna invest my energy? And being okay with the fact that if you took this to your friend for this really weird, awkward conversation and they weren't able to be reciprocal with it, then you could have another decision point and a boundary that you need to enact.

Erin: Women need to get used to reflecting on their needs and wants and advocating for them. And so if you can practice doing that in friendship, guess what? You take that out into the world in general. And I think it is such a sticking point for even someone like me who is very confident when it comes to these conflicts. I was like, "Why can't I just advocate for what I need? This is nuts that if I can't do this, how hard must it be for most people?" So most women. So just getting in the habit of identifying this is and then advocating for yourself is so important. Demanding that you kind of be seen and heard and then if you're not, or the person isn't gonna do it, then being able to draw a boundary. And the thing that's really important is demanding to be seen and heard and also seeing and hearing of the other person. Demand and also see and hear what the other person needs. Because that's how you're gonna get something that's really active and providing energy between the two of you.

And it's funny, you brought up your husband theres a psychotherapist, Esther Perel. She's an incredible couples therapist and she has a really amazing podcast called Where Should We begin where she counsels couples. I have heard her talking a lot in the last six months to a year, about how in modern, romantic partnerships, marriages, whatever partnerships, the other person has become everything. And so, you know everything about their work, every coworker. You're not just talking about your workouts, often, you're doing the workout together, the yoga or the hiking. You're co-parenting, you're enmeshed in the world of the child. And now in a pandemic where we've literally been working from home, it's become even that much more exacerbated. This is not the way romantic relationships were 30, 40 years ago. There was a real separation of what you did in the day.

And then you would come together. Nobody really knew what the other person was. You know it at high level, but not the minutia, not the holding of every single detail. And so what Esther Perel has been talking about is that it's imperative to cultivate some meaningful relationships, friendships to take the weight off of your romantic relationship, because you can't be everything to another person or vice versa. It doesn't work. It's too much strain. And that strain takes away the magic and the mystery of what a really great romantic relationship can be. On the one hand you wanna be soulmates and show every part of yourself. But on the other hand, you wanna be selective about how you're interfacing with one of the most important people in your life.

So start cultivating great friendships. A couple, I'm not talking about 50. Because as you start to understand how much it does take to work on a good friendship, you can't have that many good friendships, but being intentional about cultivating a couple of these friendships so that you can share who you are and parts of yourself and vice versa. It really can do wonders for the romantic partnership in your life.

Dr. Whitney: That's in a great alignment with what we tell kids in general, in terms of developing their friendships as they're younger too. I talk all the time with kids about having a best friend is fine, but you actually don't want that to be your only friend. You need to have categories almost. My friends at basketball and my friends at school and my friends on the dance team or whatever. So that then when things go awry, because they do because we're humans, you have not pinned all of your hope and value on this one person who has to carry the weight of all that. And most importantly also is knowing yourself and who you are, like you said at the beginning of this conversation. Being aware of what your own needs are and you being able to be your own best friend, as much as possible with the resources and help of other people.

Erin: That's right. That's the starting point. How can you possibly cultivate great friendships externally when you're not a good friend to yourself internally. That's the only way you're really gonna be able to teach people how to treat you, by the way you treat yourself. And also really have a laser-like focus on what you're bringing to the table and what you need. And the only person that can answer those questions is you. So you need to take the time to understand what really motivates you, what really inspires you and what your needs are, and then go out and try and attract or reinvigorate the relationships that support that.

Dr. Whitney: I love it. I have been talking with Erin Falconer who wrote How to Break Up With Your Friends: Finding Meaning, Connection, and Boundaries in Modern Friendships. I cannot wait for you guys to pick this up off the shelves, sold wherever books are sold.

Erin: It is yes. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, any online indi book retailer.

Dr. Whitney: Tell listeners where they can find out more about you and your other book that you've written, so that way they can follow you and get more of your great advice.

Erin: Sure. Thank you @ErinFalconer for Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter, and www.pickthebrain.com.

Dr. Whitney: Awesome. Thanks so much for being here.

Erin: Thank you.