Dr. Whitney: Hey everybody, it's Dr. Whitney. Welcome back to the Modern Mommy Doc Podcast. I am thrilled today to welcome Dr. Morgan Cutlip. She is the author of Love Your Kids Without Losing Yourself: Five Steps to Banish Guilt and Beat Burnout When You Already Have Too Much to Do. Man, could we all use this book? Welcome Dr. Cutlip. Thank you so much for being here.

Dr. Cutlip: Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to chat with you.

Dr. Whitney: Okay, so let's talk first about your background, who you are, because there's lots of people that write books about burnout and about moms and about self-help, but it really matters to me about people's credentials and kind of what their background is. So talk to me about that.

Dr. Cutlip: Sure. I've been in this field for a very long time. I feel like I kind of grew up in the field of psychology and relationship education. So my dad has his doctorate in psychology, too, and went back to get his degree when I was in elementary school. I attended classes with him and as he grew his practice, he started to notice some trends, actually around partner selection. So that's where he began. So he created a course many, many years ago. We're 25, 30 years out now, where he created a course before people were creating courses. And I started traveling around with him, working the booths at conferences, talking about the content, eventually speaking with him, and being kind of immersed in the relationship education field and conferences around the country.

Dr. Cutlip: And I then went to school because I knew I needed my own credentials and to stand on my own two feet and have my own credibility and my own right. And so, in many ways, it feels like I've been in this field forever, but my niche has been a more recent development, within the last few years. And so for the last 15 years, my dad and I worked alongside each other, developing relationship-education content and really making sure it's practical. That's something that's really important to me. But many, many years ago, I think I was maybe a sophomore in college, I was riding to a conference in the car with my dad and I said, "Someday I wanna do something to serve women. You know, you're talking to singles and couples and all this stuff, but I wanna do something to help women." And, I wasn't sure what that looked like. 

Fast forward many, many years, our daughter, Effie was born and she's now almost 10, which is absolutely wild. But when she was born, I really went into motherhood thinking I was gonna be amazing. Thinking I was going to crush it, and know exactly what I was gonna do when I was confronted with a tantrum or a difficult situation. I was like, I have degrees. How hard can this be? I have good parents. I'll be fine. And I don't even know if she was a difficult baby or if it just felt difficult to me at the time. But I regularly, and I mean every single day, felt like I was falling short. And part of it was that my expectations for myself were so far from my experience. I was smacked upside the head by that loss of freedom that I think a lot of us women experience after kids and was just like, what is this? Who am I? I thought I would be good at this. I feel like I suck. And it was overwhelming and difficult. And I felt so lost in it. 

It was at that time that I knew, at some point this early motherhood haze is gonna clear a little bit for me. And, when it does, that's when I wanna find a way to help moms navigate this differently with more tools and to feel empowered through this process. And so that's what I've been doing the last five plus years or so is really working to help moms navigate motherhood and the relationships from an empowered stance.

Dr. Whitney: Wow. So I resonate so deeply with this idea of having all the credentials, being really experienced, talking to other people about these topics. Of course, it makes it better in some ways, because you have all the book knowledge about it. You have kind of the framework, but in some ways, I feel like it makes it worse in terms of the expectations that we put on ourselves. As a pediatrician, I felt so much worse when I wasn't able to handle my kids' tantrums, or when I wasn't able to handle colic, or when I didn't know how to get my baby to sleep. Because I was like, this is easy. I see other parents who do this all the time. And I've been telling other people what to do for such a long time that I should be the hero in this regard. I think you're right. The difference between your expectations and reality, that huge gap, is really what creates that feeling of shame and aloneness and disappointment.

Dr. Cutlip: That's exactly it. And yeah, and I think I agree with you. I feel like my expectations were so insanely inflated because of all of my credentials. It can show up even in my own marriage at times where I'm like I know the thing! Why are we here? You know? And so I think that for us that have these degrees and these experiences we are prone, I think, to feel a lot of shame around those moments we feel like we can't fix it or control it or it's just feeling hard.

Dr. Whitney: The other thing I think that comes into this is especially on the relationship stuff for you, I would assume, and for me, this is definitely true in what I do, is of course, I'm not in control of what my partner does. I'm me and I can do all the research and I can try all the things, and I can even be part of educating my partner about things or bringing him alongside me in this learning process, but you're still not that other person. You're not their feelings or emotions, their history. Did that also throw in a wrench in your plans to be this perfect partner, perfect parent?

Dr. Cutlip: I think I've ditched the perfectionism piece a long time ago. I think you kind of have to, so I don't actually feel a lot of that stuff anymore. But I do really resonate with this idea, which is something my husband and I have talked about in moments of frustration of just being like, I know what to do, but you are not cooperating. And I'm sure he feels the same way about me, sometimes in terms of, well, you're not doing the X, Y, or Z. But, I absolutely think that this perfectionism piece is something that shows up for a whole lot of parents during this process and in partnerships too. That can be really, really challenging.

Dr. Whitney: One of the major things that you talk about in your book and that you talked about even on Good Morning America (I mean, congratulations. That's awesome that you're on that stage) was this idea of mothering yourself like you mother your kids. And you said the shorthand version is go mother yourself. What does that mean? I love it, because it's kind of like, go F yourself or go do whatever. So what does that mean and why is that so important for moms?

Dr. Cutlip: Yeah. So it's "go mom yourself." And I actually wanted to title my book that, and it didn't poll well, but I was like, it's a call to action and it's what the main message of the book is. And the idea is that moms are the master managers of all of the people and all of the things. We take care of our relationships. We often manage our social schedules. We manage the emotional wellbeing and physical well being of our children and the research and even our partnerships. You know, research shows us that women are often the ones who are like, we need a date, we need to talk about this. All these things. And so we're really, really good at it. We just don't often turn the same skill sets toward ourselves.

And so in my book, I lay out a framework for how we manage our relationship with ourselves, because this is what we need to get good at. Self-care is not taking a walk and things are better permanently. That's usually a bandaid over deeper issues. But we really have to do the things that we do for our kids. For our generation of parenting, we're all about the cycle breaking. We're all about self-improvement and getting to the bottom of these things and really working to change stuff, but we're not always applying it to ourselves. So we're helping our kids with things like identifying and honoring their emotions. We're helping our kids have a positive self image of themselves, of learning how to assert their needs and boundaries. We have conversations about boundaries all the time. We teach our kids about body boundaries and emotional boundaries and we teach our kids about regulation. These are new conversations. My kids know the words dysregulated, did you know that as a kid?

Self-care is often around the physical, and I think we have to sort of expand the definition of self-care, but our physical bodies, as you know, are speaking to us. They are machines that have good intentions, and they're always sort of trying to correct to keep us in our best health. But a lot of times, we're struggling with deeper issues with our physical bodies that we, as women, are really good at ignoring. And so we teach our kids all of these things, but we need to do the same things for ourselves. And that's really how I think we reach this deeper place of feeling whole in motherhood, of feeling like we're actually really cared for.

Dr. Whitney: Yeah, absolutely. So in pediatrics, we talk about this idea of ACEs, Adverse Childhood Experiences and the antidote to that being resilience. So all the skills that you teach a kid. And the AAP, American Academy of Pediatrics, has gotten very, very into this idea of resilience and ACEs and combating it. And when they came to me to say, "Hey, can you write the Working Mom blueprint? Can you write a book that's for working moms about stuff that they should know about their kids?" I was like, yes! Except for the fact that we cannot talk about ACEs and resilience in kids until we talk about ACEs and resilience in moms. We can't talk about what are the fundamental things that moms need to do to really take care of their deep needs and emotions and core self. Because what I see in my office are so many well-intentioned moms, who I tell them, yes, we need to talk about boundaries for your kids. Or yes, we need to brush your kids' teeth, or we need to feed them healthy foods, and they want to do all of those things. But they are so overwhelmed and stretched so thin, that putting those pieces of anticipatory guidance, we call them in pediatrics, are almost impossible to do on a consistent basis for their kids because they aren't able to take care of themselves. It's so much more difficult for moms to actually employ those tactics when they haven't attuned to themselves, when they haven't taken care of their deep core needs. And so I love that you're trying to teach moms a stepwise plan for doing that.

Dr. Cutlip: Oh my gosh. It's kind of wild. I mean, we all sort of know this idea of modeling too. Our kids are just these sponges absorbing all the stuff we put out. But it is crazy because, we don't often model a good model of how we tend to our needs and care for ourselves. I'm imagining when you were talking and I was having this picture of telling your child to brush their teeth. It's like, well, brush your teeth together. Do things alongside each other. There's simple ways to check some of these boxes where you show your kids. From a young age, I remember saying to the kids, it's time for mom to get dressed. I feel so much better when I've put on a little makeup and I brushed my hair and I'm gonna do that. I'll be back in whatever, 20 minutes, 15 minutes, or something like that. We're really showing our kids that it's important for us to really make sure we are taking care of ourselves and asserting ourselves in really gracious ways.

Dr. Whitney: Absolutely. All right. So walk me through in broad strokes what the five steps are.

Dr. Cutlip: Yeah. So I give a model of relationships. I wanna say that first. So these five steps are built around a model of relationships, and it's a picture of a relationship. This is called the Relationship Attachment Model. It was developed by my dad in the late eighties, early nineties. And it's the core for all of our relationship courses. So we have, of course, for singles, couples, fathers, families. And it's really the foundational piece to all of them, because we have this belief our relationships require regular management. All of them do, including our relationship with themselves. And so I'm saying all this to say, it's been researched, not by just us, but by other universities. It's been in textbooks and peer reviewed journals and all of those things, because I think that's important that it's not just an idea I scribbled on a napkin and then I'm putting it in a book.

I'm giving moms a picture of relationships. So when I say to moms, you gotta mother yourself like you mother your kids, or you gotta go mom yourself, or you have to manage your relationship with yourself, the question is, what are you managing? Like, what does that even mean? And so I give moms a picture of a relationship, so they know exactly what they're managing, because I'm encouraging moms to do these self check-ins regularly throughout their day. And when they have this picture in their head of what this model is, they can quickly run through the five areas, in no time at all. The amount of time it takes to go pee, the amount of time it takes to make a PB and J.

So, then the five steps walk through these five areas. So the first is know deeply. The way the book's structured, I go really deep into a concept, and then I come out and give you practical things. So it's like, if you need to do a deep dive here, this is what you need to get into. And then here is the stuff that's in the moment that you can do. And so know deeply, the premise is essentially if you don't know yourself deeply, you can't meet your needs. Just like, if we don't know our children deeply, we don't love them in the ways that they need. And it's the same concept. And I find over and over with moms that we start to feel like we don't recognize ourselves when we're moms anymore. It's like, oh, I thought it would be really fun. I'm not fun. I'm kind of grumpy. I don't even know who this woman is anymore. 

And so this chapter is really about discovering and getting to the core of some of the important things about ourselves that we need to understand and know. And then how do we become more in alignment with the moms that we want to be, so that we feel good in motherhood. And what do we do in those moments where we're like, whoa, I'm really distant from this. And so I help moms also dig into some things that I think are important: what brings you meaning, what's important to you, and when do you feel most aligned with the person you imagine yourself to be, and the mom you imagined yourself to be? So I walk moms through specifically how to do this.

Dr. Whitney: Let me ask you a question about that, because I love Eve Rodsky as a person, and I like fair play and all of that. But her second book, Unicorn Space was about kind of this same thing, in some ways a similar idea, right? Can you differentiate for me, because I think there is a real difference. The difference between kind of knowing yourself and your needs and the things that light you up versus having a unicorn space or a thing that you spend time on, or like a hobby. Can you differentiate those two? Because I think it's a little different, right? Like, I like to travel, so that's something that lights me up. But in reality, sometimes I don't have the budget for that, but there's other things I feel like you can do every single day. And sometimes it's just about the way you talk to yourself or the way you spend your time in the course of a day.

Dr. Cutlip: Yeah. I would say that what I'm describing is almost like an umbrella. It's a bigger picture. And then something like a unicorn space, a hobby, something that brings you up is one area or drop down box underneath the umbrella. I would say even something that we can struggle with a lot in motherhood is that maybe we're not living in accordance with something we really value. And so this is when we can feel like we don't know ourselves where it's like, I value this, but I have none of that in my life. Or I value this and I am not acting at all congruent with that value. And I think that these are also ways that we know ourselves and can feel aligned as mothers and as women and people. And so it's more than a hobby and it's more than carving out that special time doing something that fulfills us. It's actually feeling like we're good with who we are.

Dr. Whitney: I think that's a really important differentiation, because there's nothing wrong with a unicorn space. There's nothing wrong with a hobby. That's so amazing. And also it's part of a larger picture whole. It's a piece of the whole, it's not the whole thing.

Dr. Cutlip: The next one is trust accurately. In this chapter, I talk a lot about mom guilt. I talk about our self-concept, which I think is a really important part of motherhood. And it's one of the most powerful interventions we can do in the moment without requiring any time or space away from our kids, which shifts the way we're constructing our self-concept. I think a lot of us get in this sort of shame spiral where we're kind of worn thin and worn out, and so we snap at our kids, or we lose it completely on our kids. And then we're like, oh my gosh, I am the worst mom. I'm terrible. I can't believe I've now traumatized my children. And so then we layer on more shame and more guilt, and then that makes us less likely to be able to keep it together later on. So we're more likely to snap, but we just kind of get stuck. We get stuck. And then when we think about how we see ourselves, we see ourselves as this nasty, grumpy, a lot of times frumpy person, which is the most negative picture of ourselves in our minds. And so, in this chapter, I explain that concept. I haven't really shared much about this, but in the book, every concept is first applied to a story with my kids. So it's applied to how it shows up in our relationship with our kids, and then I apply it to our relationship with ourselves. I think it's just easier to grasp stuff.

Dr. Whitney: I think so too.

Dr. Cutlip: We're so good at thinking about our kids first. And so it talks about how to shift this, how to change this and it's really, really powerful. The third is rely boldly. So this chapter is all about defining our needs, asserting our needs, getting good at expressing them. One of the most common things I hear from moms is, I don't even know what I need anymore. I get a moment alone and I'm like, I spend the whole time trying to figure out what's gonna fill me up. By the time I figure it out or whatever, the kids are already back. Yeah. So, this chapter is really all about needs.

Dr. Whitney: Yeah. And I find that that is harder, actually. I think that's part of what makes summer so difficult for parents. It's because in the school year, if your kids are old enough to be in elementary school or they're going to preschool or whatever, you have a little bit more time. You maybe have those six hours. So even if it took you like an hour to figure it out, eventually you might come to it and be able to use your time in a way that feels restful or feels fulfilling to you. But in the summer, sometimes your moment that you have is 15 minutes. And so I think that's a part of why parents feel so at their edge by the end of summer.

Dr. Cutlip: This summer, I had the busiest summer of my life and I was like, I'm gonna work only two days a week because I wanna be with my kids. So almost every day this summer I've gotten up when I'm with the kids, except the two days that I'm not, and I've thought about the context of their life. What's going on with Roy? So my kids are Roy and Effy. Roy is seven, Effie's 10. What's going on with Roy and Effie? Okay. Roy's been wanting to go to a baseball field and play some baseball. I've been spending more time with Effie. I need to give him a little bit of attention. Effie, she's 10, she's going through some stuff and she's been a bit more aggressive lately. I need to take her somewhere. She can work out some big energy. I'm saying all this to say, almost every day this summer, I have done a needs assessment on my children and structured our day around what they need. This is what we also need to do for ourselves. There was one day where we're going to the beach. We're spending the whole day with friends. They really needed some time with their community. And I was like, if I spend the whole day about them and then I reach the end of the day, and then they complain at me, I'm gonna be like, I gave you my whole day! 

So it's like, okay, if I'm gonna give the whole day to them, I need 40 minutes this morning to do something for me. And so it's about this ebb and flow of who gets priority and whose needs are being met. But this needs assessment is something we so naturally do for our children that we need to get good at for ourselves.

Dr. Whitney: Yeah. 100%. And here's something that I might challenge listeners on. A lot of times I talk about spending a little bit of time in the morning just by yourself. I'm not actually like that into the idea that the morning routine has to be like X, Y, Z, but I do believe in having just a moment to reset and be quiet and not look at your phone and just set your intention for the day. And sometimes when I talk to people about that and I mention the word journal or morning page, people are like, I can't journal. So just be comforted. The idea of journaling could be something like this, could be something like a very pointed structured needs assessment where you're actually spending time thinking about maybe your kids' needs, but also your needs during the day. So taking that moment doesn't have to be like roses and violets and soft music and Kumbaya in the morning. It could be something that feels a little bit more businessy to you.

Dr. Cutlip: Oh, I'm all about it. I'm all about the business. I say it even in our romantic relationships: Put a meeting on the calendar, do the check-in. Who cares? Relationships are serious business. It's fine. The conversation around mom burnout and self-care and all this stuff has been so needed and so important. And I'm in the conversation. And then I think also we've sort of suggested certain things so many times that moms have kind of numbed out to the suggestion. And I think journaling is one of them. The reality is that journaling is really helpful. So is meditation. So is different types of deep breathing. It's kind of a shame with this conversation that we have done that, but these things do work. And so if you implement them in your lives, you're gonna be one of those people who's like, I know it's cliche, but it's changed my life.

Dr. Whitney: Totally. Yes. And you might need it to be in a more structured way for it to change your life. As I would say, most women do who have a penchant for anxiety or for over-functioning. If that's your gateway drug into doing this, is to have it be more structured, by all means, have it be a structured led meditation by somebody else, a guided meditation, have it be a structured needs assessment. That's okay.

Dr. Cutlip: Okay. I'll say one more thing on this one. I say this to couples, but I'll say it to moms. When we're learning new skills, it's usually really mechanical all business in the beginning because it's new and it's foreign and it doesn't come naturally. And so it's okay. If you think about a sport, you don't become an amazing free throw shooter just by stepping up to the line and taking a shot. No, you'll stand there probably for hours and 50, a hundred, 200 free throws over and over and over. It's the same thing in our relationships. Things will be kind of mechanical at first until they become integrated into how we just function in our lives. And it's okay to be that way at first.

Dr. Whitney: Yes. Amen. What's step four?

Dr. Cutlip: Step four is commit wisely. So this chapter is all about how we prioritize. I also talk about willpower. I shove a lot in this chapter. So one of the takeaways is we have to learn how to prioritize in a way that we feel at peace with. I talk about how we're regularly gonna have competing priorities. It's almost every minute of the day we have competing priorities. Right now, I'm prioritizing sitting here talking to you, and therefore I'm not with my children. This is one of the realities that we sort of need to come to terms with, which is that sometimes there's pain in prioritizing, but you can't prioritize one thing without deprioritizing another. And I think as moms, a lot of times we function as if we can prioritize it all at the same time. It's killing us and it wears us out. And so that chapter's big on that, also on the idea of willpower and some of the research around how it gets used up and things that deplete it.

Dr. Whitney: Okay. So I have a story for this that I think will help people. People know from the podcast that we created a situation with our caregiver, my kid's nanny lives with us. She lives in the basement with her daughter, and then we live in the top two stories. And we do a trade and it works out well. So that way we both have what we need. I'm off to the office and traveling a lot. She's here. 

But one thing that we differed on that I did not realize before we moved in together, and she knows this is, is about the way we both clean up. She is very much about everything kind of happening relatively immediately in terms of cleanup. So the dishes are in the sink. They go immediately into the dishwasher. If something is out, she buys it right then on Amazon, like the paper towels or whatever. 

My style is that when I wake up in the morning, my priority is my work and my kids. I want things to be neat and tidy, so I'm not stimulated from a visual perspective. Otherwise, I'll leave all that stuff until a little bit later once I finish off with my more important priorities and then get to that stuff as fast as I can all in one chunk. It's the way that I help my brain. I batch it all. 

And so we came into some serious conflict, as I was trying to think about stuff for Modern Mommy Doc, thinking about stuff for my book, thinking about stuff for my kids. All day long, she'd be like, oh, by the way, we need more of this. Oh, by the way, can you do this? Oh, by the way, there's a load of laundry. 

So I think part of your first couple chapters about figuring out what your needs are, knowing yourself really deeply and having an acceptance about your needs will facilitate this more fully. Because what I had to do is stop and be like, "Yo, your need is to have all this stuff happen quickly. My need is this. So what's the way that we can come together so that your need is met and my need is met? Would you like to make a list? And we could have it visually on the refrigerator, so we can both see it, but I can attend to it when it works well for me?" And that happens with our partners too.

Dr. Cutlip: I was gonna say, that's a common thing in a partnership.

Dr. Whitney: So I think knowing yourself fully, though, is what gives you the voice to be assertive, instead of building resentment around it.

Dr. Cutlip: You get it! You're getting it. I'll disclose that one of my insecurities is that I'm not a presenter of information that's like, this is what you do, period. I'm very much a big picture. I'm an integrator. And so sometimes I think my answer is not sexy enough for this. But also, I just don't think that that's always helpful. I'm not prescriptive. I'm kind of like, this is your framework. But you're exactly right that the model is integrative. Everything builds on each other. And it starts to kind of be iterative. So you go back through it. And so you're exactly right. As you know yourself more deeply, you can meet your needs better and more effectively and efficiently and express them better. So you're exactly right. It all works together.

Dr. Whitney: I think you're absolutely right. It becomes more iterative. Then go, oh, that connects to this. And I agree with you. I think actually what we've gotten ourselves into, with social media especially, is this idea that there's five or 10 specific things you can do that are right or wrong, every single time, that make the same result. I hate to say five because I know there's five steps in your thing, and I love your five steps, but it's true. A I do that too on podcasts. It's just the way of the world, where you're like, three things you can do to make sure your kid succeeds in school. You know what I mean? And the reality is that life doesn't actually work that way. I mean, it's about frameworks and principles and priorities and values, but it's not necessarily about, you do thing A and that always leads to thing B, because there's sometimes all this background noise in between A and B that makes that difficult.

Dr. Cutlip: I mean it's something that I find really challenging about social media. It can be harmful when we're not really being thoughtful about how we consume information. We have to remember that the person presenting it doesn't know the context of our life. And not everything applies. I think back to when Effie was little. She had some pretty, epic tantrums. I'm a highly sensitive person. I think my kids both are. How do I get two of you? They're amazing, but it was really hard when they were little. And I remember consuming all the information around "name it to tame it" and, I mean, honestly, I'd named it and it would inflame it. It would get way worse. And I remember feeling like either something's wrong with me, or my child, or the both of us. I'm not doing it right. And so I think that we have to be careful about that stuff. That's my non-sexy answer. I'm the framework gal.

Dr. Whitney: I like it. I like it. And then there's a final step. What's your final step?

Dr. Cutlip: Yeah, it's touch purposefully. And so this one is about our physical self. It's kind of the one part in the book that, if I get anywhere close to traditional self-care, it's here. But in this chapter I talk about lots of different things. I talk about body image a little bit. I talk about stress, because stress is such a key piece to our health. I talk about our physical health. But the main takeaway is that we have to listen to our bodies and respond appropriately. I think, and you could probably speak to this better than I could, about how long I ignored my back ache that actually turned out to be leaky gut and intestinal things. I just can't imagine our daughter coming to me and saying, my back hurts, and me telling her we can get to it in two years. You know? We don't do that for anyone else in our family. For our partners, they're like, I have this weird flutter in my heart. We'd be like, go to the doctor, but we're so bad at doing this for ourselves. And so that's also a piece of this chapter, is our physical health. A little bit about sex too.

Dr. Whitney: I think that's the other piece that goes along with the meditating, journaling, all those things. We've heard almost too many times like, yeah, you need sleep. Yeah. You need to eat well. Yeah. You need to move your body. Yeah, sex that makes you feel really good about your body and about your partnership, that's great. And then we're like, Uh huh, uh huh, uh huh, uh huh. But the reality is, it's so true. Actually, the science behind cortisol levels and weight gain for women. It's incredible. It's mind blowing. 

If I was to postulate, I think one of the reasons that people can't take that in is because they're already so stressed and overwhelmed, they're like, well that's nice for other people, but my life is so stressed and overwhelmed. And so there's a bit of a chicken and the egg situation, I think, that happens for people, which is why books like yours are so important. And actually why I am glad you put those basics at the end, because I think for some people, maybe the starting point for them is those deep emotional pieces. Then that's their chicken and then they can get to the egg over here and then it comes back to the chicken. You know what I mean? 

Of course, there's some people on their fitness journeys and financial wellness journeys and that's a thing that sparks this whole revolution for them in their life. But my experience with moms in the clinic and with their kids, is that sometimes it's those deeper psychological aha moments that make it like, oh, I could change my whole life.

Dr. Cutlip: I agree. I think that there's a lot of times these hang ups that we struggle with that we have to break through in order to even get to the physical stuff. Yeah. I think another piece is that sometimes I don't think we believe it will move the needle. So we're like, okay, I'll go to bed an hour earlier and miss out on my TV time, but what difference is that gonna make? And it's like, well, kind of a lot. It's actually probably a big difference. And so I hope what my book provides are at least options for entry points to start making change.

And so, if you don't wanna start there, maybe start with the emotional stuff. But as you have some of these aha moments, these little wins that are manageable wins, you'll start to build some momentum to bring in some of the other practical tips that I share in the book too, or that are just available to us with all of the content creators that put out such amazing information. We do need those immediate little wins to start to feel like, okay, this is worth actually doing.

Dr. Whitney: Yeah. Okay. I have loved, loved, loved talking with you. You guys also, we didn't get to this, but check out Dr. Morgan Cutlips Instagram as well, because I was telling her before we started recording, there's some people that I kind of follow passively. And she is a person that I am like, yes. Oh my gosh. Aha moment. So amazing. So thank you. She's so great. Why don't she tell people where to find you, where to find the book. Say the name of the book again, so people can find it readily.

Dr. Cutlip: So the book is Love Your Kids Without Losing Yourself: Five Steps to Banish Guilt and Beat Burnout When You Already Have Too Much to Do. And you can find it anywhere you buy books online. So that's where you can do that. You can learn everything you need to know about me from my website, any other courses or information. And then my Instagram, which is Dr. Morgan Cutlip too.