EPISODE TAKEAWAYS:

• We all face external AND internal pressures when it comes to our appearance, especially as working moms trying to put our “best FACE forward.”

• You can learn to accept your body – no matter how it looks – and to give yourself grace when it comes to body image. 

• Freedom from diet culture isn’t just about pure body positivity or sudden change, it’s about a lifelong journey toward abundance and away from scarcity. 

• When you decide your worth is not attached to how you look, you’re free to spend your time and mental energy enjoying the moment and fully enjoying eating and exercise. 
  

About Paige:

Today we welcome Paige Bryant. She’s a health coach, fitness instructor, and content creator on a mission to help women live their lives unapologetically. @paigepbryant www.paigebryant.net

WHAT'S INSIDE:

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Dr. Whitney:

TRIGGER ALERT: Hey modern mamas. This week on the podcast, we are talking about a potentially triggering topic: body image, disordered eating, body dysmorphism and eating disorders. I wanted you to have a heads up in case this is really triggering for you, because it is for so many of us. I also wanted to remind you that the podcast and the information we're going to talk about is not a substitution for individual medical advice. So contact your own medical provider for information about how to create a lasting, healthy relationship with yourself and with food.

Paige! Thanks so much for being here today.

Paige Bryant:

Thank you so much. I'm honored.

Dr. Whitney:

Yes. So you guys today, we're going to talk about a topic that is so important and that we don't talk about enough, but that Paige has dedicated her entire career to which is body image. And how we think about our bodies and how our bodies inform how we think about ourselves, just in general. And you guys know that for me as a working mom and for you guys as working moms, this matters so much as we think about our value in the workplace. Somehow this informs our value of the workplace, which it should not. So Paige, I just want to have you start by telling your story. What got you so inspired to do this work?

Paige Bryant:

Yeah, absolutely. So my story is kind of a long one, so I will try really hard to abbreviate it. I'm very much a talker and also have ADHD. So sometimes my story kind of goes off side roads, but I try to pull it back. So I'll try, but my story actually goes all the way back to really, honestly, childhood when I started developing a negative relationship with my body and with food. I am a singer originally from Nashville. I live in Florida now, but in the performing industry, body image is a big deal. And I was told that I was too fat to have a record deal and just kept hearing it. I don't point fingers at my parents at all.

Now being a mom, I totally understand that they felt they were doing what was best for me. And there wasn't this body positive anti-diet culture back then. So I just constantly had that and grew up wanting to lose weight, to fit into my wedding dress, to have this ideal body and, all these things. Slowly over time I developed an eating disorder that was very silent. I didn't even know myself that I was struggling with an eating disorder. It just kind of felt like there was something wrong with me, but I didn't know exactly what. And then as I got older I had babies and as we do, we gain weight with babies. And then we have that whole idea that we've got to lose weight after the baby and I fell deep into the weight loss and diet culture world.

I even began teaching fitness classes. I was taking fitness classes at the time to try and lose weight and get my body back and fell in love with the class. It was actually a dance fitness class and I started teaching it on my own. I actually still do teach it to this day just from a different mindset. So I started teaching that and as a fitness instructor, I got a lot of questions. "Can you help me with nutrition?" "Can you help me with this or that?" So I did and I started coaching people. I was also an elementary school teacher. So I was trying to balance the work life and the fitness life and the mom life and all the things. And there was also a lot of stress behind that.

Paige Bryant:

I decided to quit teaching. My mom actually passed away from cancer and I just could not handle the stress of being an elementary school teacher anymore. I decided to teach people in a different way and was enhancing my coaching that I was already doing. Unfortunately, I was falling even deeper into my eating disorder. I was diagnosed with body dysmorphia as well as something called orthorexia nervosa, which is basically where you are obsessed with ingredients and nutrition, facts, nutrition labels, and all of that. And it just kept getting worse. And I struggled with body image a lot. I can remember my husband, jokingly threatening me with, "I'm going to take all the mirrors out of the house. You look beautiful. Why can't you see yourself the way that I do?" And he would take pictures and be like, "See?" And I'm like, "No, I don't see what you see."

So I struggled with that a lot. And to be honest when COVID started and we're all at home and not really around anyone else, I could start to hear my own thoughts and hear my own struggles and really had time to sit with that. I felt like I was lost. And like people were turning to me for all of this nutrition advice and how to lose weight and have the perfect body, but I'm struggling with this. It wasn't lining up. Something deeper was going on. So I really spent a lot of time digging into that to try and figure out what was going on and how I could work on that. I started talking to my therapist about it and working on recovery and leaning into the group that I already had. I'm someone that very much believes in just being honest, sharing our struggles, and growing from that. Community is very important and socializing and communication. So I leaned into that and they started supporting me as well in that journey. So it just kind of took off from there.

I have stretch marks from pregnancy and I have not just like a little bit of stretch marks. But I have a LOT of stretch marks and they come up very high. They were very deep. When I had my first pregnancy, after my son was born, I could not sleep on my stomach for probably a month or so, because my stretch marks were so bad. They hurt. It hurt from my pants to touch them. I have a lot. And I also have a lot of loose skin, a mommy tummy, the FUPA, whatever they call it. So I struggled with my relationship with my body, mostly centered around that. And I'll never forget seeing someone (I'm gonna give her a little shout out...The Bird's Papaya...if you don't follow her, you need to follow her. She's fantastic.) A friend of mine shared something from her in one of her stories and it was her stretch marks. So I started following her and I think it was her that just kind of made me feel, not only better about myself, but feel like I also had this powerful voice where I could share that bodies like this are normal. And it just kind of skyrocketed from there. And now we're here!

Dr. Whitney:

That's a great summary. And I want to hear, was there a turning point? Because I think during COVID, there were a lot of come to Jesus moments for many of us. But was there a moment where you realized like this is too much, or this is taking over my life? Was there a specific moment?

Paige Bryant:

There are a lot of moments, honestly, that I feel kind of snowballed. I also struggled with eating disorders, so it was more than just body image. So there was several moments of just arguing over where we're going to go out to dinner because I couldn't eat the foods that were being served there. You know, things like that. And there was one point where my son, I think he was either seven or eight at the time. I can't remember. I saw him push his food away and he started poking at his belly going, "Oh, I'm just so fat." And that was one of those moments where I was thought that I was spilling this onto my kids and they're seeing this and they're hearing, "Mommy, can't have this. Mommy can't do this."

Also, my social life was greatly impacted. I didn't want to go out with friends. I didn't want to be in my bathing suit around people. It got to a point to where I was so afraid of food affecting my body, that I started saying that I was fasting for health reasons, when in reality I was starving myself. I would go for days, 86 hours, not eating because I was so afraid. Not only of just food, but just afraid of my body, just recklessly changing overnight because I ate, you know? And so it just got to that point to where my social life was so bad that my husband started noticing and making comments. So really just all of these things kind of snowballed, but the fasting and the not eating was really kind of my major breaking point of realizing I can't live like this.

Dr. Whitney:

Yeah. So there's two things from that. One: I saw a post you put up that was about like, "Is it possible that I've gained nine pounds over night?"

Paige Bryant:

Yeah, your body does fluctuate and it does change. And there's so many factors that contribute to that. But when you are struggling with body dysmorphia, it's not even about your actual weight. It truly becomes a number game. And it becomes a mental battle, you know? Where you are constantly seeing yourself in a larger body in a negative way. And I feel like we, especially as a society in America, have this internal fear of fat. We have this fatphobia built in. And so you are afraid of that, you know,? And you just don't see yourself in a body that you have. And even if you do, sometimes it's not about that. It's about your worth. Just thinking my body is ruined. I have all these stretch marks. I can never wear a little bikini. I can never wear a crop top and I can never do this. And you just constantly hear negative, negative, negative, negative, negative. When really we truly are so much more than a body and our bodies are the least interesting things about us, but we struggle with accepting that. We can say it all day long and we can cheer on other women. But when it's ourselves, we tend to struggle with that.

Dr. Whitney:

You know, the other thing that you said that I think resonates for me and probably for a lot of other moms listening too, is the idea of when your child gets to a certain place or certain age, that's triggering. My oldest daughter's almost eight and over COVID, she's had some weight gain. And as I look at her, I know the negative thoughts started coming around that age for me. And you look at your child and you start having these weird projections onto your kid. And then all of these triggering thoughts. I think that is the age where I really started paying attention to the idea that they way that I show up physically is attached to my worth. And I think that that's a turning point for so many moms when they start to realize, like you said, "Whoa, I'm spilling all of this onto my kids. The way that I'm talking about myself is affecting my children." And it's even in ways that are very subconscious. For example, maybe you have the shakes and everybody else gets to eat normal food and mommy has to have a special shake or everybody else gets to enjoy the ice cream. And mommy says, "No, thank you." Or picks like the low cal version or whatever.

Paige Bryant:

I'll never forget the feeling. I don't even remember what we were eating, because that just shows right there that it's not about what you're eating. But I remember both my kids saying, "You're eating! You can have this!" And they were just so excited that I was there with them and I truly, honestly do not remember what the food was. I can remember all the way back to when my youngest son was in preschool. I think he was like two or three. And he brought home this piece of paper that he had been working on.

He was so excited about it and it was where they had to cut out pictures of a magazine and put them on the right side of it. It was literally labeled "bad" with a frowny face and "good" with a happy face. And of course, you know, it was all the quote "unquote healthy foods" and the junk food on one side. And that at the time I was like, "Yay, you're doing so good." You know? No, no, no. But that sheet of paper, I think about it all the time. And not that there was anything bad about that (and we have wonderful preschool teachers.) But again, it's ingrained in our culture that there's good food. There is bad food. There is healthy food. There's not, there's junk. So we learned that at a very young age and it sticks with us. But unfortunately what also comes with that territory is if I eat good, I'm being good. If I eat bad, I'm being bad and I need to make up for that, you know?

Dr. Whitney:

Right. Exactly. That it's about your choices with whatever you're eating as a reflection on who you are as a person. Now I want to ask you because some people who are listening might not know the difference between disordered eating and eating disorders. And I've seen you break that down a bit. Can you break that down for our audience?

Paige Bryant:

Absolutely. I get that question all the time and we get some little haters on Instagram every once in a while, but I just don't understand. And that's okay because we don't hear that a lot. An eating disorder truly is a mental disorder, a mental struggle. And, and along with that, you know, can also come a lot of trauma, a lot of depression, and anxiety. It's just a much deeper, negative relationship with food. You have that fear, you're not eating, or you're bingeing, an out of body experience. Not overeating--many people also get that. Just a side note: I am not a licensed therapist. I'm just sharing simply from my research and my own personal experience. But you a lot of people get the overeating and the bingeing mixed up. Bingeing is a disorder.

Paige Bryant:

There were several times where I was just completely, in an out of body experience. There was a time where I was digging food out of the bottom of the trash can in the pitch-black didn't even realize it until the garage door opens because someone got home, you know? Whereas if you're overeating, it's just totally different. So things like that, mindless eating, just overeating or eating out of fear. Getting fat-free, sugar-free, keto, whatever the new trend is, because you're afraid of what's going to happen to your body or choosing specific foods because you feel like that's right. Or punishing yourself by over-exercising to make up for the cheeseburger that you ate. Things like that are more of a disordered type of eating, not necessarily an eating disorder.

Dr. Whitney:

Exactly. And you guys know I'm a pediatrician. There's an entire, what's called DSM, a specification of what actually meets criteria to have an eating disorder or body dysmorphia or disordered eating. But this is the point that I want to make today for you guys: even if on the outside, people would say, oh, she's so healthy. Oh, she's so fit. Oh, she's an ideal body weight. But in your head, you are all day every day, thinking about food and talking negatively to yourself about the foods that you eat or chastising yourself or thinking about your next exercise class you're going to take as a punishment for yourself because of what you've eaten. That's still unhealthy. It might not land you in the hospital and might not mean that you need a feeding tube, but that is going to seep out eventually. And it steals away from the joy of living, the joy of living the rest of your life, of being present. Because that's what you're talking about. I think the thing is when you're talking about being with your kids at the restaurant and being able to just enjoy, is that when in your mind you're so focused on, "Is this okay for me? Am I going to be bad if I eat this?" You don't get to enjoy the moment of connection with your children.

Paige Bryant:

You really don't. I mentioned that I live in Florida. We live in Orlando. And so we go to Disney World all the time. And I'm so glad that I have healed my relationship with food because I just can't help but think about how sad it would be to go to Disney and not be able to eat all the Mickey-shaped foods. The biggest thing that I've noticed in kind of shifting a little bit in my form of eating is yes, I'm eating things that I used to view as bad or that I used to not allow myself, it wasn't approved on my diet plan or whatever. But now when I eat them, I can have a little or even the whole thing and be completely satisfied.

I don't have this feeling that this is the only time I'm going to have it. It's going to be taken away from me. I'm never going to get to have this again. Better eat it all now. And I get to truly enjoy just the entire experience of eating, tasting the flavors who I'm with, just the happiness, and the freedom of guilt is not there. You know, the guilt is not there. They always say, guilt is not an ingredient. So those things, it does make a huge difference. And then just the memories of getting to be with my kids. We went to the waterpark the other day.I didn't even think about food. The old me would have constantly been thinking, "Oh my gosh. We're not home. And I didn't pack this. And I've got to make sure that I can fit this into my diet today." And it's that types of thinking — that disordered eating —that can lead us to losing that joy and living for a pursuit of weight loss instead of life.

Dr. Whitney:

And freedom. I think freedom is the key word that you said. Now I want to hear about (and I know also: disclaimer, right? Everybody's journey is so completely different.) But I want to hear about just the high level of your journey and what changed. Because what would be running through my mind if I didn't know and hadn't been peeping you on your Instagram for the past couple months would be, "Well, so now what? She just eats, whatever? Like chips and tacos and cake all day long and like sits around on her couch? How does she actually then make sure that she's staying healthy?" You know? That there's some level of balance and how exactly did she break free from this prison of disorder?

Paige Bryant:

Yeah. You know, I will just tell you straight off the bat, it's not easy. It's really hard. As much as we think following diets are hard, following a diet is easy because there's rules to follow. When it's, "I'm doing this. I've got a checklist." When it is truly a journey of self-discovery. There are those trial and error times-- those times where you do something and you figure out, "Hey, that doesn't work for me, I've got to change it." And so it's intuitive eating and food freedom. You know, the word that you hear all the time is compassion. And I always tell my girls, that I coach now that everything is a learning experience. So when we do have those moments (because they will. You don't just flip the switch and say, "Oh, I'm done dieting. I'm going to eat whatever I want and be free now."

It doesn't work like that.) And so when we do have those moments of, "This doesn't feel right" or "I'm falling back into old habits where I can feel diet culture creeping in," we have to look at it from a different perspective. And we have to look at it from a place of compassion and grace. And what can I do to learn from this experience so that the next time I feel good and I feel comfortable, because that's what it's all about. And ultimately everyone's goal is to feel good. It doesn't matter if you are teeny tiny or in a larger body, if you don't feel good, that's not fun. Nobody wants to not feel good. So it really is about that. And just figuring out what feels best to you. Finding that balance (as much as I hate the word because it is very diety.) It is finding that balance, intuitive eating, food freedom. And that honors health, way more than people think.

People just assume, like you said, that we sit around and eat tacos and chips all day. And I love tacos and chips, and I do eat them without guilt, but not every day. And at the very beginning, when I started allowing food in abundance, I was eating a lot of chocolate and it got to this point where it was just gross and I didn't feel good and nobody wants to feel that way. So now I can keep chocolate in my pantry and forget it's there. We've had Oreos in our pantry go bad and had to throw them away because there's no excitement attached to that anymore. And it took a long time to get to that point, to just kind of release that excitement. To discover that, "hey, when I eat Oreos all the time and I sit down and I eat the entire pack, I feel like garbage." So like you said, everyone's journey is completely different. It's the same thing with this health looks different on everyone. And health does come at every size. Health is about finding the balance of just having an abundance of a variety of foods, moving your body and figuring out what feels best to you. Not only physically, but especially mentally,

Dr. Whitney:

So a couple of things you said that I absolutely love. I feel like one of the main themes here is moving from a scarcity mindset to an abundance mindset. There's not only one chance to have this bite of cookie or of pie. You can have it when you want, so don't worry. This isn't your like little token of this that you get to have. And then the other thing that I love is about the exercise piece and the movement. I've seen tons of posts from you and it looks like you exercise quite a bit and move your body quite a bit, but the idea is to find mindfulness and joy, to make that the goal by only moving your body in ways that bring you joy even if you might be sweating. You might be like, "Ooh, my thigh hurts when I'm doing this squat," but it's not a punishment.

Paige Bryant:

It shouldn't feel like a chore, you know, and a lot of times dieting and exercise come together. And when the diet has failed, you, you kind of have this negative attachment to exercise, or even you feel like, oh, I'm exercising because I have to lose weight. And it just feels daunting. It feels like a task, right? So sometimes we have to just take a break from it. If we choose not to exercise and rest, that's still a form of self-care. If we choose not to exercise for a certain amount of time, because we're focused on healing our relationship with food or because if we come into exercise, having a negative relationship with food in our body, it's not going to be joyful. It won't. It's going to, no matter what you say, and no matter how big your smile is or how loud the music is. It's still coming from a negative space.

So taking that time to heal from it is very important, but it is truly finding the exercise that feels good to you and that makes you happy. There are certain things that I am not a fan of 1) running and 2) kickboxing. I can't. I don't know, I can't do it, which is crazy because I'm a dancer. And you'd think that I'd be, but I can't, I can't, I look terrible. Step aerobics: awful. Can't do it. It does not bring me joy, but I especially can't with the running. You know, my husband is a runner. He loves to run and I just don't get it. For the longest time. I would tell myself, "Oh, I'm doing this program or run because I love to work out and it's a stress reliever for me." Which it is. Exercise is a huge stress reliever. But I started noticing that I was exercising and finishing early, because I was just over it, but I would still check off the box.

It wasn't about moving my body. It was about checking off the box and saying I did it and having almost bragging rights. And so it took time. You know, I love to dance. I love to ride a bike. I love strength training, but then there are also times where I'm just not digging it. You know? Like today is a perfect example. You mostly have women on here, right? It's about to be that time and I'm just not feeling it today. So I left the gym.

I don't wear an Apple watch. I don't track my time. I don't track my workouts. I just do what I feel like doing in the moment. And, I'm not saying that following a program is a bad thing as long as it feels healthy to you but if you don't feel like working out, that's okay too. You're, you are allowed to stop. But I think the biggest thing is, kind of circling back to what you were saying, is making sure that you're not losing that joy in the movement. And I also want to say that I think this also kind of gets a little twisted: Movement and exercise doesn't always mean in the gym, and, and slinging weights around. It could mean going on a walk with your girlfriend. It could mean parking farther in the parking lot and walking an extra five minutes into Target. And we don't all do that a lot. Just finding that movement throughout your day is also a big game changer.

Dr. Whitney:

I think that's a good point. My biggest thing that I love to do is Peloton. I love going on the bike, but then I also have found (I don't know if you've done this yet) the new cardio dance, that's to Usher. It's a whole 20 minute Usher class. And he comes on at the end and I'm like, "Yes, I'm in the club with Usher." It's amazing. But those are the moments that I think, "Okay, I'm clearly doing this because I'm reconnecting to my Senior in high school self, like at homecoming, you know what I mean? This is me. It's fun. It's not me punishing myself. And I don't have to get to the end. If I stop 10 minutes early because I want to, it's fine.

Paige Bryant:

I'll also say too, having that mentality of, "Oh, it's gotta be fun" is ok but it's not always. (Movement) Can be very relaxing. You could do yoga, you could meditate, you could just relax. Whatever you feel like doing in the moment that's going to make you feel like you are respecting your body because of your choice, mot what someone else is telling you should or shouldn't do, is really the key.

Dr. Whitney:

Let's talk about women in the workplace and how body image shows up there. I don't know how your clients break down — what the mix is of people who are stay at home or who are working moms as well. But my whole group are people who work. And I think there's a lot of pressure also on women when they show up at work to be dressed with their makeup, having their hair looking good, to make sure that they are looking thin. Honestly, there's either a perceived pressure or an internal pressure to get the promotion, to get more face time with a manager based off of appearance. Do you find that as a pressure with the clients you work with, too?

Paige Bryant:

Absolutely. I do. The girls in my group are kind of 50:50. There are quite a few moms that stay home or work from home. And then there are some that also are in the work environment. And you know, I myself was a teacher for seven years, so I completely know that pressure. I can only speak from my own experience. I did feel this pressure to kind of keep up with everyone else and to also be a role model and a leader, like, " Oh, look at me, I'm the one eating healthy and I'm the one that you should turn to for nutrition advice. And I'm working out after school while everybody else is going home. You know, I kind of had that competitive side to me that did not work out in my favor, but I absolutely find that, kind of like what you were saying, too. I think it depends on them. All work environments are completely different, you know, but we are seeing on social media and on Tik ToK, people talking about the work environment and about how people are treated unfairly and things like that. It even stems all the way down to the medical and the health industry. Body image plays a huge role in that, unfortunately. It's there in the performing world and the entertainment industry big time.

Dr. Whitney:

Yes. Big time. I can't even imagine that. I mean, you see all of these people that are at the Met Gala and you're like, I know that does not happen from you just eating normally. They'll show 'em on — what is it on Facebook where they'll show an entire thing of like, this is what I eat in a day for a celebrity, have you seen that?

Paige Bryant:

I've had so many people ask me to do that as an intuitive eater. And I said, absolutely not. There are amazing, intuitive eating influencers out there that do share that. And they do it in a fantastic way, Victoria Garrick, if you don't follow her, she's awesome. She does those, but she breaks it down to the process of how she's eating and it's phenomenal. But I personally don't share those because I know, for me, when I was in a diet mindset, I would have been looking at it like, "Oh, that's what she's eating. That's what I should be eating too." I can't tell you how many times I Googled, what does Adele eat? You know, things like that. And it can be unhealthy for the person that's watching. So I try not to share those things. And then, you know, talking about the fitness industry, people that are celebrity trainers (and I'm not saying this for everyone,) but we can't just, like you said, with social media, we can't believe everything that we see on social media, on TV, on videos and, and all of that.

Paige Bryant:

Shelly Johnson, she is a fitness trainer. She's done a lot of exercise programs and things like that. And right around COVID, she started coming out and sharing her truth and gained a lot of mad respect from me and talked about how she used to have women come up to her all the time saying, "How can I get a body like yours?" And she's like, "Just take my 30 minutes a day exercise class and you'll look like me." But then she was like, "In reality, people didn't know that I was struggling with an eating disorder, starving herself every day and having multiple plastic surgeries," And she's like, "And I was working out (I could be exaggerating this number. So I don't know that I want to say, but for some reason the number five hours was it for) three to five hours." And the other thing that comes with that is genetics. We are all built differently and bodies are not a trend. Unfortunately they are. You know, you can look back throughout the decades and see how the ideal body has transformed and changed. But, realistically, not everyone is built like Kim Kardashian. You know?

Dr. Whitney:

I think the main takeaway from today as we're coming to a close with Paige, is this: Do you want to spend your entire life trapped by your thoughts about food and about your guilt about exercise and having your worth tied to how you look and what you eat? And I think that when you break it down to that, that is to me, inspiring to want to break free from the chains of disordered eating or from an eating disorder and for myself and then for my children so that I don't pass on a legacy of worth and value being tied to food and to appearance. I mean, gosh, that makes me want to cry, to think about my eight-year-old child feeling bad about herself because she looks slightly different in this season of her life. How horrible. It's like robbing her of the time and energy and focus she could be spending on so many more important things.

Paige Bryant:

Absolutely. I love that. And I want to also add too, you know, it it's okay if you're struggling, it's okay. If you have those negative thoughts, they're never just going to completely go away, but the more that you do work on healing your relationship with food and exercise and body image, those negative thoughts become easier to manage. And it's one thing that has helped me. I always like to share this: it's not about loving your body. You know, there are parts of my body that I don't love. I don't love my stomach, but now instead of looking at it as something that I hate or something I'm disgusted from, I look at it as, "Yeah, that's not the stomach that I would choose if I was, you know, designing my perfect body on a computer game, but that's the stomach that I was given. And that's the stomach that allowed me to birth two beautiful boys. And this is what I have to show for it." And it's more about finding that acceptance to where you can focus on living your life without those feelings holding you back."

Dr. Whitney:

I'm really glad you said that because I think that's an important distinction. This isn't about, okay, now we're going to shame ourselves for having negative thoughts. It sounds to me like intuitive eating and that your approach is not about all-out body positivity, all the moments of all days, but more about developing a journey of a sense of freedom, and then developing a really deep level of self-compassion for how you feel about yourself in that moment.

Paige Bryant:

Yup. A hundred percent nailed it.

You can find out more about Paige Bryant by following her @paigepbryant and at www.paigebryant.net

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