Dr. Whitney: Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Modern Mommy Doc Podcast. I'm Dr. Whitney Casares, your host. And today I am thrilled to be joined by Dr. Alissa Erogbogbo. She is medical director consultant at Maven Clinic. And I wanted to talk about Maven Clinic and have her come on because I really think that when it came across my radar, I was like, yes, this is the solution that we've been waiting for, for moms and for kids and for families and really for comprehensive healthcare. So thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Erogbogbo.

Dr. Erogbogbo: Absolutely. I think you put it best. It's a comprehensive service that's available here at Maven and glad to be a part of it. It's something that's moving us into a direction that most people aren't used to understanding. How do I receive care through the internet or through a virtual platform? What does that really mean? And it requires a little bit more of innovative thought and just really looking at your healthcare as a whole and thinking about when you have those questions that you still wanna ask, but you're not sure who to ask. 

Maven is an answer for you because it's 24/7, on demand care. And you can talk with a care coordinator and be able to really just understand, where should I go with this question? Who should I talk to? Is it a pediatrician or should I talk to the OB or should I talk to a doula or do I talk to a midwife? Who's this person that I can really just kind of glean some information from to really understand where I am in my reproductive journey.

Dr. Whitney: Yeah, absolutely. And I also saw that there's a lot of mental health support that Maven is providing. Is that right?

Dr. Erogbogbo: That is definitely true and it comes in various ways. Whether you decide that you want a series of appointments or maybe you just want one appointment to understand something of a diagnosis, or maybe you just need some support just to ask a question. I'm having anxiety right now. I'm not sure how I'm gonna make it through this. Can I ask you a few questions? 

That's something that is somewhat of a problem, I guess you would say, when you think about those things, because we can always do a chatbot and say, "Hey, does this make sense? What should I do?" And the chatbot will read it back to you. But isn't it kind of nice that you can go to a platform, actually speak with someone, they give you some referrals, some direction and resources, so that you can know whether or not you need to have an in-person appointment? Or do you just put up a series of appointments with Maven? 

And that in itself, I think is a huge win for healthcare as a whole, but even for women. And this is where you could be in various stages of your journey. And to really be able to tap into a resource such as this, is a huge undertaking. And it really takes that burden off of us birthing people, women, men, families as a whole, trying to find where I can go for that one-stop care. Or at least somebody to help me coordinate through this.

Dr. Whitney: Yeah. Okay. So tell people, for those who are not as familiar with Maven and haven't been researching it like a maniac like me, what are their options? What are the solutions that Maven provides specifically? And then also how do they access it? Can a person off the street access Maven? Is it through employers, corporations? Talk to me about that part.

Dr. Erogbogbo: Well, it's all of the above. It really is. It's all of the above and it's just a matter of where you sit. It's something to ask your employer, do you have Maven services? It's something that you can even ask your insurance plan. Do you guys have Maven services, where people can kind of tap into various areas? How do I tap into it? And you can definitely go on to the Maven website and look at the app, download it, and then start care that way too. And you can go from your employer, which a lot of employers are there that have it as available in their platform, even for the services for the employees. 

But you have to ask the questions too. You may already even have it and just haven't utilized it. That's another big thing. A lot of folks have a lot of access to this, but just haven't utilized it yet. And this is an opportunity for you to be able to go and open it up, look at it, see what services are available, what are you looking for, what have you been looking for? And maybe they can give you that good answer that you're looking for. And maybe you start a good relationship with Maven.

Dr. Whitney: Absolutely. I want to read a few stats from the Maven website about the efficacy of this more comprehensive program. And really when I have been looking at you guys, what I've been impressed by is kind of this more holistic approach. The idea of thinking about fertility, the idea of thinking about menopause, the idea of thinking about women and families who have kids and are trying to navigate childcare for their own children who are already in existence. And so kind of spanning the gamut there. 

So a few statistics from the Maven Clinic website: 33% of members better manage anxiety or depression due to Maven. 25% of fertility members achieve pregnancy without assisted reproductive technology. That's huge. And I think actually maybe the most impressive, over 90% of members return to work after they’ve taken leave.

Dr. Erorbogbo: That's a big one, right? This is where it's a huge benefit for employers, because now you've got a return of your workforce and that, in and of itself is a huge return on investment. And of course, decreasing the anxiety. We all know we have anxiety as human beings, but to be able to get some of those answers early on is huge! 

Maybe just understanding, what does my journey look like for me and my birthing journey, my reproductive journey, menopause, infertility. All these things that don't necessarily go unanswered, but you are looking for something just a little bit more. Or maybe you need to ask the question three or four times and you just wanna make sure that it's gonna be the same answer every time. And that is where this comes into play. 

It's about preventive care and early education. Early education in itself helps to decrease anxiety for a lot of individuals, but even more so for women, because we're thinking of multiple things at times. Because of course there's no one else that can have a baby but us, right? There's no one else that can think about the infertility except for the husband or the partner that's involved as well. But who's the person that's going to have to go through the birthing process? That still could be that birthing person, right?

And then of course when it comes to having to be that strong unit or the cornerstone of the family and deciding when do I go back to work or can I take some longer time? This is where you can really just dig into those benefits and really understand, okay, this is what I can do to support my family. This is what our plan is. Maven supports me through this plan. 

That's a huge win for a lot of individuals. I didn't have it when I was having kids. And even now till today, not everybody has that. And that in itself is something that can decrease your stress. Decrease your level of misunderstanding and really being able to get to and ask questions and advocate for yourself. 

It also leads into you just being a whole person and being able to do something like yoga. You are not worried about, okay, oh my gosh, where's my time? Okay, I gotta figure this out. I gotta figure that out. You longer have to do those things because it's all figured out for you, and they're working it around your schedule, not you working around their schedule.

Dr. Whitney: I think that's huge for working moms. You know, in my pediatrics clinic, I so appreciate my partners and also the therapists and the licensed psychologists that work alongside us that are constantly talking about work-life balance for us, but then also for the patients that we serve. And so we have a more traditional model there. You know, we're there from 8:30-5. On the weekends, we're there from 9 to 12. We are there every single day of the year, but it's not the same as having 24/7, 365 day a year access for a working mom.

Dr. Erogbogbo: It's very important. And, sometimes we don't necessarily, even as individuals or human beings, recognize that. But then, of course, we take it even a little step further for those who are going through various reproductive journeys or however that is for your family and your partners that are involved in this. Sometimes we take a little bit, I guess you'll say take advantage of, "Oh, you'll figure it out" or "It'll be okay." And sometimes, maybe, you don't need to figure it out. Maybe sometimes you just need to be able to say, let me have someone else help me navigate through this. And then you realize, oh my gosh, I feel so much better now. I can go to sleep at a decent hour. I can do all these other things that come into play to care for my family.

Dr. Whitney: Yeah. Maven I know has a huge emphasis on LGBTAI+ communities and wanting to make sure that you're really supporting them. Tell me about specific initiatives they have or how they do that. How do they make sure they're really supporting minority communities and different communities?

Dr. Erogbogbo: It comes down to the care coordinators. You know, our care coordinators are the ones that are doing the boots on the ground, that first interaction. And you need to be able to identify with that individual because they're gonna help you navigate through that process. Just really understanding who you need to talk to to help you navigate through that process and being able to identify those that you wanna talk to. And so those are some things that are a little different and being able to ask for that. 

You can see that on the website. They ask you those questions and I think that's where it's a little different than most places. And just being open and honest and letting someone really be able to ask those questions freely and not feel judgment about it. Because sometimes it's certain things that an individual is looking for and you need to know they can identify with that person. Plus the fact that we have the different languages available on the platform, those are certain cultural things like being able to speak your own mother tongue and being able to express yourself.

Dr. Whitney: Yeah, for sure. Tell me about the interaction between Maven and health insurance. When people sign up when they're with an employer, I'm assuming that it's the employer that's offering it as a benefit. It's separate from someone's maybe individual health insurance, is that correct? Is that the way that it works?

Dr. Erogbogbo: That would be a different question for another person to answer. That really goes into having to talk to other individuals within Maven and get more understanding on what's happening and how that all works and that intricacy. Because things are generally always evolving, it's best to have the ones that know it best to be able to answer those questions.

Dr. Whitney: Okay. No problem. What I did see when I've been researching about Maven is a lot about the way that the platform works, not being in competition with insurance companies. You know, that's not the goal. The goal is to be complimentary. So if it wasn't something that was covered by an employer, then it would be something that would be complimentary. The other thing that I saw that was so neat, and I'll just mention and if you can speak to it, you can, and if not, we can move on, is about the financial dashboard. 

I also saw that there's even some resources within the Maven platform that are about health account reimbursement and being able to think about making sure that you're making your money work for you and allowing what your employer actually sets aside for you to be useful to you, in the ways that are helpful to you. Which I think is really a new thing that hopefully working moms are the ones who are kind of pushing this idea of like, it doesn't help me to use my FSA on toothpaste.

Dr. Erogbogbo: I hear you. And that does come from a different department too. Just to really give you the details of things, but you are correct and really looking at that overall picture. And this is where that holistic approach comes into play too. We always say, is it holistic thinking about just the care that I'm receiving? No, it's the whole thing. How do I really navigate through this whole landscape of my healthcare? And that's where I think Maven has done a really good job of trying to answer that for a lot of individuals, depending on where you come from in your health insurance or employee, all of that. But that does come from a different department as well that would give you more details. It wouldn't be me, but trying to make sure you're looking at everything.

Dr. Whitney: Talk to me about your medical director consultant role and then previously medical director role. Tell me about the ways that you really instilled quality care, that emphasis on quality care with the providers that were taking care of patients. Obviously working with the care coordinators, but what were the other things that you were really focused on in terms of the interactions with patients? Because I know that in my private practice clinic, that can be tricky.

I've been the site lead at my clinic and been the one who's been telling other providers, "Hey, that interaction didn't go so well." I've been the person on medical home champion, telling people that these are the things we need to do to make sure, from a systems level, that things are better. So talk to me about Maven in that role and now your consultant role, what are the things you're really focused on that patients need to be the most successful possible?

Dr. Erogbogbo: I think it's just a matter of just understanding efficiency. And making sure, if there's adjustments with time, with schedules, how do we really just make sure we're always meeting that demand? Always engaging, always available, answering questions when needed, whether it's synchronously or asynchronously. But that in itself is something that you can see. 

They pride themselves on that and it really is that partnership with the provider and the care coordinator. I think that's the ultimate thing of really making sure there's streamlined communication and them working together to make sure that this particular individual gets the care they need when they need it. And that really does fall on the shoulders of working with the care coordinators.

Dr. Whitney: Dr. Erogbogbo, tell me what you're doing when you are not at Maven. You're a consultant, but then you're also practicing in the actual real world, in person.

Dr. Erogbogbo: I am. So, I work at a hospital here in California, as well. So for me, I guess you'd say I have my foot in both buckets: brick and mortar and then in the telehealth world. But in the brick and mortar world, it still allows everyone, myself included, to really understand what patients really do need on the hospital side and what kind of questions they are asking on the hospital side. 

And really just understanding the things that are occurring for someone when they do come to the hospital. How they get their care, how they receive it, how things may change. Because in the OB land, things are very dynamic and it changes all the time. And this is where it kind of just gives you perspective, I would say, on here's what's happening here virtually, but here's also what's happening in person for an individual. And this is what their journey will look like on the other end of it. And then where do you continuously make improvements on both ends to make sure that the care is needed and the care is met for that particular individual.

So I still love it. I haven't given it up yet. We'll see how long this lasts, but you know, it's still a really big thing to just make sure I can continue to give care to patients.

Dr. Whitney: Yeah, I can appreciate that. That has been similar for me, as well. Having kind of my ear to the ground, seeing patients who are really struggling with those early feeding issues, seeing people come in with their baby carrier. What's the thing that they're wearing today? Tell me about that. Understanding what they're buying on the internet for sleep, seeing things in real life sometimes can really be helpful when you're working with someone virtually. 

And also I think the other way around. When you're seeing someone virtually, it can help to understand, like you said, what's the path someone's gonna take before they come to you? What's the path they're gonna be taking when they leave your office or when they leave your virtual spot and they go back into the real world in the hospital or have another child or go back there.

I always think it's interesting with my online platform, how that informs my clinical world and allows me to see the broader expanse of what's going on and then vice versa. And what I found the most interesting is, I was really privileged that The American Academy of Pediatrics named me as a spokesperson, and so I get to see some of their policies that come through and I get to be part of that. But sometimes policies are different, as you know in your world, than what happens in the real world, in a clinic setting. And so being able to translate that is so important.

Dr. Erogbogbo: Because we see both sides of the coin and it also brings in that innovation side to that brick and mortar world too, in really looking at the full scope of what patients are dealing with. And this is where we see a lot of hospitals that have opened up telehealth a lot within their own facilities. 

A lot of hospitals have now done a lot of asynchronous learning for before you come into the hospital. Use our QR code, go on here, we've got a few videos for you. Right? There's more innovation that's coming. And then of course you look at the AI component of things to be able to kind of see, okay, how does it streamline into our own hospital setting? But, at the same time, how do we best support?

And it's making these algorithms to say, alright, you've come on to our website here at the hospital, you wanna find out more about pregnancy? Oh, here is this link here, try this one. But guess what, we also have this link for other questions. Then here's some resources for you to also look at. Here's an also on demand telehealth platform. Like different ones, like baby scripts or things of that nature that are out there. 

Because there's plenty of them, but, of course, Maven focuses on that beforehand. But then it's nice to know that this is some place you come even after you deliver. Here's a place you can also follow up with care. Here's a place that you can follow up with your recovery. Here's something that you can really understand for career coaching now that you delivered. What do I do? How does this work? How do I go back to work? And, now who's the best support person for me?

And these are some of those things I think, for hospitals, they're starting to understand. They're gonna have to start seeding through and bringing some things together. They may even have to start having some more partnerships too. And really understanding, what are the needs of my community and my families here? How do I keep them coming back to my hospital? 

So I think it's growing. It's still new because people are like, there's no way you could do telehealth. And it's like, well, you know, pediatricians have been doing telehealth for a long time. They've been doing telehealth forever. Now we should do it for all specialties. Because it's how different modalities look at that care delivery and what you're doing and how you can best support this individual. And a lot of times it's all education. You know, it's really just a lot of education and putting some comfort in, some decrease in anxiety for individuals.

Dr. Whitney: Yeah, for sure. My books with the AAP have both been around moms. And when I talk to physicians at conferences about the books, I'm always talking about this idea: for kids, we talk all about ACEs. We talk all about these Adverse Childhood Events. We talk about resilience, we talk all about ways we can strengthen that and their coping skills and all these things.

But if we're not thinking about the entire family unit, about primary caregivers, about moms, about dads, about grandparents. We have to support those people too. Because if we don't, then it doesn't matter. We can talk till we're blue in the face about supporting kids. It's not gonna make a huge difference if we're all stressed out.

Dr. Erogbogbo: And that's it. That's definitely it. Right? Because we gotta really think about that support system and it really shouldn't matter about your income. About building a support system. We always say with building, I build my family of community around me or my tribe of individuals that I lean on. 

Well, a lot of times there should be a way for anyone to build upon a tribe of individuals, with all of these telehealth platforms that we have. With all the things that we have, as far as access. And this is where building and meeting those needs, meeting people where they're at makes a huge difference. This is where we get into, how do we support? How do we answer those questions for you? 

Because we do need it. It's ongoing. It's never gonna stop. Right. You're always gonna need support. You're always gonna need something for something that's happening with a kid or your husband or grandmother or aunt, uncle. It brings in that whole family dynamics. 

And this is where I think telehealth is trying to do it. Hospitals are trying to do it. We're all trying to answer this call that's happening because we know our numbers are abysmal compared to other countries and it has not improved. So what are we doing? How are we gonna make this difference? 

And maybe it's years to come to see what we're doing, how we provide that access, how the equity continues to grow and build. And then for folks just to understand when you're building and supporting, it's not at the cost of something, it's to make it better. And if you make it better for one, you make it better for all.

Dr. Whitney: I love that. I think that's a great place to stop. Dr. Erogbogbo, thank you so much for being here. I hope that listeners, as you're hearing us talk, that you're seeing something. Sometimes I feel like there's a little adversarial thing, like us versus them about the medical system and patients, you know? I hope you're seeing how much heart I think both of us have about really wanting to make it successful for parents and how the intricacies of it will take time. But I think we're actually starting to make some headway with virtual platforms like w. So thank you so much for being here.

Dr. Erogbogbo: Oh, well, thank you Whitney for having me. This is great.