Dr. Whitney talks with Dr. Shelby Harris, a clinical psychologist and sleep expert, about how moms (anyone really) can get better sleep without medication and why we’ve got to stop wearing our tiredness as badges of honor. Dr. Shelby Harris is a licensed clinical psychologist, a specialist in behavioral health medicine, an expert in Mom-somnia, and author of, “The Women’s Guide to Overcoming Mom-somnia: Get a Good Night’s Sleep Without Relying on Medication.”

Key takeaways:

Dr. Whitney: What is Mom-somnia?

Dr. Harris: This is different from insomnia, where you can’t sleep. This is where moms are going, going, going, all day long taking care of kids, the house, work–whatever. And then at the end of the day, when it’s time for bed, you just want to steal some time back for yourself. Which is great–but what happens is that they do it for too long and too late. They’re staying up scrolling social media or binging TV or even doing chores. But they do this to the point that they’re lacking sleep. And that's where the problem is.

Dr. Whitney: How has this become a thing and why is it that we know sleep is important but we don’t prioritize it for ourselves as moms?

Dr. Harris: Sleep is such a passive thing. You don’t see the benefits of sleep right in your face. And you don’t also link feeling tired to not getting enough sleep. We pass it off as motherhood or work or simply just being tired. And there’s so many things that we want to do, even as silly as it sounds about watching TV, and often the only time to do those things is at night. Plus, technology has made it easier than ever to just have all of that at our fingertips.

Dr. Whitney: I also think there’s this badge of honor that we wear as “tired moms” that we think that’s how it’s supposed to be. But our bodies were not designed that way. They were designed for rest.

Dr. Harris: Absolutely. And it takes commitment to break that. I tell people that if you can just take two weeks with a certain wake and sleep time plus some wind down time, you’ll start to see a difference most of the time. And you’ll start to be more productive in a lot of areas of your life. And when you’re more productive earlier in the day, you don’t feel like you have to spin your wheels at night as much. But you won’t see that change in a night or two. You have to give it at least two weeks.

Dr. Whitney: Do you feel like people are resistant to change in this area? Like they have all these symptoms whether it's brain fog or migraines or nausea, but they just aren’t willing to look at sleep being the problem?

Dr. Harris: Yep. Again, sleep is so passive. People aren’t fully appreciating what happens while you’re sleeping. It’s not just fatigue. It helps to repair your body from damage during the day, muscles are growing, blood vessels are growing, neurons in your brain are growing, emotions are processing, memories are being made. All of those things happening help us feel better during the day but we can’t see that because we’re literally not conscious while it happens. And people just want the quick fix for the energy but it won’t do any of the repairing that sleep does for us.

Dr. Whitney: It seems like people are quicker to want to jump to medication to help their sleep than they are with other areas. Like anxiety or medication people are more hesitant to it, but with sleep people just want the quick fix.

Dr. Harris: We want the quick fix. With a lot of the more traditional anxiety meds, they take weeks to see results. But with sleep meds, you get an immediate result. You take it and tonight you’ll have better sleep. And the reality is that it’s hard work to change your biology but it’s temporarily hard. If you have true insomnia, it takes time to make those new habits to have a better sleep and wake time, to get in movement during the day, to have that wind down time. But that’s what our body needs to do. There is a place for meds for sure, but it won’t give you the same quality of sleep or even awake time that natural sleep will get you.

Dr. Whitney: Let’s break it down mom-somnia vs insomnia. If someone had mom-somnia, besides getting real about why they have that feeling of needing more time for themselves at night, what can they do to break that habit?

Dr. Harris: It’s a matter of focus. People with insomnia think about sleep all the time. That they can’t sleep and that they want sleep. People with mom-somnia know they need it but choose not to and choose other things instead. So that first step is looking at why. Why do you feel like you should go to sleep but aren’t? What would a good night’s sleep mean to you? How would you feel? Think about what benefits it would bring you. Link it back to something there. Practically speaking, if you’re getting sucked into your phone, get an old school alarm and keep your phone somewhere else. Or set a timer so that your phone reminds you that it’s time to start your bedtime routine. Time to start winding down. If it’s shows that are keeping you awake, go into the settings. Most streaming services have the ability to turn off the function that auto-plays the next episode so you have to consciously choose then and there to stay up or go to sleep.

Dr. Whitney: Moms feel like they just want a piece of themselves but their attention is pulled in so many different directions during the day and no one else is paying attention to all the things, so there’s this pressure to do it all. And having time at night is how they prioritize themselves. I love what you said earlier about linking it to what they want their days to look like. Less reactive with their kids, a better attitude at work. Whatever it is, they need to find a reason why they should prioritize better sleep.

Dr. Harris: And the crazy thing about sleep is that it’s linked to other things that you don’t even realize. It could be something like wanting to be less reactive with your kids, but it could also be healthy eating habits. And when you’re not sleeping well, you’re actually more likely to reach for those unhealthy foods. It’s all connected.

Dr. Whitney: What can people do if they are experiencing true insomnia where they want to sleep but can’t?

Dr. Harris: Insomnia is defined as not being able to fall asleep, having trouble staying asleep, or waking too early and it’s happening 3 or more days a week for multiple weeks on end, usually after 3 months. And we treat it very similarly. Because sleep is not an on/off switch. You have to lull your body there. If you can only start with 10 minutes to wind down, start there. And there’s all the normal stuff, limit screens, no naps, limit caffeine. But with chronic insomnia, that’s usually not enough. That’s when you can look at cognitive behavior therapy, which is what I do. We look at when you’re trying to sleep, what you’re doing when you’re in bed, and all of that. And most people are resolved within 2-8 sessions.

If that’s not enough, that’s when we look at medications or if there is something medically going on that would affect sleep, like perimenopause. But it’s so important to talk to a doctor that will listen to you and not just dismiss your issues as normal. Because, again, it’s all connected. Poor sleep can affect anxiety and depression and vice versa.

Dr. Whitney: What about in postpartum? The sleep aspect is missed HUGELY when it comes to tackling postpartum depression and anxiety for moms. Why aren’t we looking at sleep solutions for moms who are dealing with this even if their babies aren’t sleeping?

Dr. Harris: It’s simply not talked about and it’s so important. If you can regularly get 4 hours of uninterrupted sleep, the risk of postpartum anxiety and depression goes way down. You can’t ever plan what a baby’s sleep is going to be like. And sometimes you have to be the one dealing with it. But what you can do is try and get some help. If you can protect 4 hours, especially if you’re already prone to anxiety and depression, then you’ll be in a much better spot. We do find that the rates of postpartum depression and anxiety are affected significantly if you had it prepregnancy, so sleep is a huge piece of this.

Dr. Whitney: I think people are generally overspending on cute baby clothes and the right crib and underspending on getting help so they can sleep. I always tell people in my practice that a meal train isn’t going to help if you aren’t sleeping. And work it out with your partner–this is why paid parental leave is so important. We can’t always afford a sleep coach in the middle of the night, but we can afford to speak up about what our needs are. Have that conversation with your partner.

Dr. Harris: It’s just a conversation that needs to happen before baby comes. We aren’t going to figure out anything in our sleep deprived state. There’s enough other stressors. Since we can’t predict what the baby’s sleep will be like, it’s so important to protect hours for you so that you’re at your best. Have those conversations with your partner and with your pediatrician before the baby gets there.

Dr. Whitney: Two books I want to plug on that: Jancee Dunn, “How Not to Hate Your Husband After Kids,” where she talks about the biology of how we’re wired in the male/female relationships so you can plan out conversations you need to have. Then my book, where I talk about how to actually get more sleep for yourself and what you can do. Dr. Harris, how can people find more about you?



Dr. Harris: I have a website drshelbyharris.com and my Instagram is sleepdocshelby and I had a book come out called, “The Women’s Guide to Overcoming Mom-somnia: Get a Good Night’s Sleep Without Relying on Medication” and that’s available wherever you get books. It’s really for women suffering with insomnia of all ages–but actually anyone who’s suffering with it can really benefit from it. I also have a private practice where I see patients locally but I see them virtually from all over.

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